Marietta Giannakou Minister of Education and Religious Affairs

P.M. Communications: I'd like to begin by asking you about the International University being developed in Thessalonica. Could you explain the concept behind the University?

Marietta Giannakou: Throughout the centuries, Greece has produced great teachers, philosophers and scientists. As the world goes through the process of globalisation, we feel that it is the right time for us to offer a Greek education in different languages to people outside of Greece. Greece has always had foreign students, particularly from the Mediterranean area. For instance, in recent years, many Jordanians have come to Greece to study medicine because they don't have medical schools. We now feel that we should open Greece up to others. Whilst we have longstanding universities working with experienced and dedicated personnel, we have decided to create a special university for foreigners where the official language will be English. The students will also be able to take some lessons in Greek and other languages if they choose to. We already have an area assigned for the campus just outside Thessalonica and we will soon be appointing the first Directorial Committee to rent a building and start to implement the necessary programmes. We are also asking renowned Greek professors from outside of Greece to join us in this effort. We won't have classic departments as in most universities in Greece. Instead, we will have programmes and modules, offering more flexibility to our students.

P.M. Communications: And when will the International University be up and running?

Marietta Giannakou: Not this year. After we have nominated the Directorial Committee, they will move the project forward. We have money from the European Union to carry out the work but we will proceed carefully because we want to create something truly special. We have three main pillars: science and technology, the humanities and economics and business. Economics and business is the priority as the demand is higher for these kinds of courses. We are preparing a plan for the study that would create an attractive academic milieu; it will be a wonderful opportunity for people outside of Greece.

P.M. Communications: Particularly because Greece has the opportunity of becoming an educational hub for the region? The title of our report is "Greece: Your Strategic Partner in South East Europe: Business Opportunities and Investment Prospects". Many Greek businesses are now expanding throughout the region. What opportunities do you see for education?

Marietta Giannakou: In Greece, for many years, the higher education system was seen as completely separate from the market economy. Now, whilst we believe that universities have their own intrinsic value and are not the servants of the market, we also recognise that not to see the relation between the two worlds is a mistake. Now, we ensure that all the universities pay attention to the needs and demands of the labour market.

P.M. Communications: By focusing on business, economy and by teaching in the English language, do you hope to attract students from across the region?

Marietta Giannakou: Yes, and not only from South East Europe but also from the Mediterranean area. An added advantage of this is that students pay the public universities in most of the Mediterranean countries. For instance, in Jordan people pay for their education in public universities.

P.M. Communications: Many countries around the world that successfully sell their education systems are also selling a brand. Greece has an incredible tradition of education and thought, and has given birth to some of the greatest minds in the history of Western civilization. Does this tradition, this brand, if you like, help you in your mission?

Marietta Giannakou: Greece is not a big country and we don't have any particular natural resources so we have to invest in our human resource and even in our education system as a way of generating income for the country. Various pillars underpin the new European Programme from 2004-2008. Firstly, multilingual education; it is clear that English is the lingua franca across the world and an important aspect of the education system. However, English by itself is not enough. We want to give a wider cultural education and that means studying more languages. The second pillar is to develop a system of life-long learning. We have many opportunities.

In Italy, Modern Greek is now an option as a second language. Many people around the world want to study the Ancient Greek language and culture. This is also very important and something that we can offer to the world.

P.M. Communications: Looking beyond the immediate region and ahead to 2010 and the possible establishment of a single European higher education space. What challenges and opportunities does this development pose? Are Greek universities are ready to compete?

Marietta Giannakou: We have already passed a law so that we can have common masters and doctorates with universities of other countries. Taking the excellent example of the Erasmus programme, in the future we can have part of the studies for masters and doctorates in a different country. It's good for mobility and the cooperation of people. Science and culture should have no frontiers.

P.M. Communications: What are your priorities for the next set of European Framework funds?

Marietta Giannakou: We must invest more in human resources. The third European Programme was focussed on infrastructure and construction and was criticised for that very reason. We must now invest in human resources in a concerted and energetic way. When I was working in the European Parliament as a Deputy, and working on the budget of the European Social Fund, I remember that we would always hear the same criticism. The policy in every county was to give money to people via the Ministry of Labour and create an average system of vocational training. We must change this policy by focussing more fully on life-long learning.

The Ministry of Education has passed fourteen laws in the past two years. The most important of these are related to quality assurance and evaluation (something that was never accepted by the universities in the past), the International University, and life-long learning. The official system of evaluation is being created to bring Greece in line with EU policy and will improve the credibility and competitiveness of our universities. We have created a system of life-long learning and now, even the universities have created institutes of life-long learning where although you don't take a degree you will have a paper certifying that you have taken a certain course. We will also present a new law to the parliament in June regarding Universities and technological institutions because the law of today is from 1983 and is out of date. Taken as a whole, this reform package will mean a brighter future for all of Greece.

P.M. Communications: There has been a problem with the absorption of European Framework funds across the government. How are you addressing that here at the Ministry of Education?

Marietta Giannakou: It is not so much of a problem here. After all, it is not cheap to put computers in every school and later on, to move up to the next generation of technology. Let me give you an example. In India, they have a special satellite for education and it is not so expensive. Here it is very expensive. We pay OTE more than Euro 10mln a year just for network support. It would be a wonderful idea to have a European satellite for education. I am in favour that education is complementary competence of the member states of the European Union. We need to clarify the situation. Education must stay in the hands of the national governments but at the same time we must coordinate ourselves across Europe in order to have some common actions, rules and frameworks. For example, in the UK there is an educational institution between high school and university, which you cannot call a university. We have to leave some peculiarities and allow these actions of member states to stay as they are but we also have to agree what constitutes primary, secondary and higher education. There must be a common framework. If we can agree in this way then we will have real mobility and the exchange of academics and scientists between universities. This in itself will ensure real quality as if a system is only judged from within then there is no true evaluation of that system.

We will also be able to have common programmes in research. Europe has many research programmes but the results don't compare to those of the United States. I am not proposing that we try to become the United States - we want to keep the social model and if you want to keep this it is impossible to become the US. This is the ideological conflict between Tony Blair and the others. We have to try and find a way to work better together, to coordinate together and not to duplicate work on the same thing. This will not be easy but we have to do it. Education is a very sensitive matter and it is very much part of a national culture and ethnic peculiarities. However, we must also remember that these national cultures have brought us to war in the past. For the past fifty years we have enjoyed precious years of prosperity, development and growth within the European Union. We have to be careful to both preserve our differences and come closer together through education. It is a very sensitive issue.

P.M. Communications: That is something else that we wanted to touch on. You are Minister of National Education and Religious Affairs. How does the second part of your responsibilities form part of your work here?

Marietta Giannakou: This is another sensitive issue. We have passed a law for Ecclesiastical Studies to make sure that more people continue. We created a similar system to the army where there will be high-level higher education, but the church has the right to produce people with higher qualifications, the same as in the secondary school. Now people have to pass the Pan Hellenic exams in order to go to the Ecclesiastic School because, in the past, one of the problems for the theology schools has been that only three percent of students wanted to go into the church after their studies and the rest went into education.
There is a very clear separation between the two arms of the Ministry and it all works fine. We are very clear with them and there is no misunderstanding. The Ministry takes many decisions because the church is a public organisation.

In some aspects we are ahead of many countries in Europe. For instance, in Austria and Germany, the church sends people to educate the children and this teaching is given a special status. Here, this doesn't happen. Here, theologists come from the university and they teach their subject in a classroom in the same way as a physicist or a mathematician would teach theirs. Somebody from Austria asked me how could you have such a liberal system if the church intervenes? This is Bismarck's law!"
So, our church in more liberal than the Catholics' and Protestants' in some ways. In other areas, they are more aligned to national sentiment and occasionally they are out of touch with the public when they say something.

P.M. Communications: We have talked about your future plans. Now, I'd like to return to the past. Socrates once said: "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." What do you feel education means?

Marietta Giannakou: That's true. The school's role is not only to give basic knowledge but also to help develop a child's personality and integrate that child into society - especially nowadays, when we don't have big families. I am a psychiatrist by profession and sometimes people ask me why, when at the beginning of the century drugs were free, we didn't have such a problem with drugs. My answer is that it was a different time. The family was authoritarian with the father at its head but it was also a big family and if the parents were not capable of treating the children well and bringing them up properly then someone else could play this role. Today, in many cases there is only a father or a mother. If the parents do not have very good relations between them and cannot fulfil some criteria then it is a problem for the children. Sometimes the school begins to play a more extended role. Socrates is correct. Education is not only about the mind.

P.M. Communications: Greek teachers, philosophers and scientists have given so much to the world over the centuries. What would you as Minister of Education like to give to see Greece giving to the world in the 21st century?

Marietta Giannakou: First of all, throughout the world they speak about Greek culture but we must also remember our contribution to science as well. I am pleased to say that our schools are very dedicated to the European system and that many Greek children have come first in many European competitions in the last few years. In the Physics competition the three first were Greeks! In the Spring of Europe last year between 7,000 schools, 800 were Greek. In a Europe of 25 nations where Greece has a population of only 10mln people, all the people wanted to participate. They are very dedicated. They use the school network with other schools in the European Union. We must continue these traditions.

P.M. Communications: Thank you for your time. I'd just like to give the opportunity to send a last message to the readers of The Telegraph?

Marietta Giannakou: Materialism is important for the welfare of the people but in a time of materialism and technological advancement it is important to remember that ideals are the most valuable things that we have. What I have to say is what Don Quijote says in Miguel Cervantes' novel, "The man who fights for his ideals is the man who is alive."